PC Perspective Podcast #389 – 03/03/2016
Join us this week as we discuss the Thermaltake Core X9, the Controversy around DirectX 12, FreeSync HDMI Displays, and more!
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Hosts: Ryan Shrout, Josh Walrath, Allyn Malventano, and Morry Tietelman
Program length: 1:32:49
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And the VLAN on Saturday!
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Week in Review:
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0:51:40 This episode of PC Perspective Podcast is brought to you by Braintree. Even the best mobile app won’t work without the right payments API. That’s where the Braintree v.0 SDK comes in. One amazingly simple integration gives you every way to pay. Try out the sandbox and see for yourself at braintreepayments.com/pcper
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News items of interest:
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Hardware/Software Picks of the Week
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Allyn: Sony DSC-RX10 II
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Closing/outro
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Morry thank you for
Morry thank you for suggesting the Thermaltake Core X9 E-ATX Cube Chassis. I bought one last time you suggested it in your picks and am currently modding it to fit in a car radiator (they are way cheaper than the overprices pc water cooling stuff).
“It seems difficult not to
“It seems difficult not to see this as Microsoft trying to shoehorn PC gaming into their mindset of console gaming”
“…the idea that Microsoft is trying to consolify your PC…”
“…’cause the PC is about openness, it’s about being able to run mods, it’s about being able to run overlays, it’s about being able to choose whether I want to buy it on Humble, or Origin, or Steam, or a DRM free method, or whatever it happens to be” – Ryan
I heartily agree with all that, but you know what struck me listening to Ryan say that? The same thing applies almost entirely to Steam. It might be doing it to a slightly lesser degree, but I’ve always said that Steam is doing it’s best to consolify the PC experience. Look at the Steam interface; a one-size-fits-all quasi-console dashboard. Jack of all trades, master of none. “It’s about being able to choose I want to buy it on Humble, or origin, or steam, or a DRM free method”. Well there are plenty of games who’s sole form of DRM is Steamworks. Maybe you can buy them retail, but you’re still forced to install and run them through the Steam client, and be part of the Steam ecosystem whether you want to or not. Is that any different to MS forcing you to use games through their ecosystem? Steam restricts how you can install and use your games. It forces the latest patch version, and there is no way to roll back. This is a nightmare for the same reasons forced latest GPU drivers would be a nightmare. Steam is a largely anti-enthusiast platform. It’s aimed at the lowest common denominator, maximum convenience for Average Joe, and does not represent the freedom/openness that is supposed to be the essence of PC gaming. If we’re going to critisize Microsoft for doing this, the we should acknowledge that others are already doing it.
You M$ paid advanced
You M$ paid advanced spindoctor, trying to equate what is done on Valve’s client service with what the big M$ OS monopoly is baking into their windows 10 OS! M$ is trying to have control over the users PC hardware for everything including having their PC gaming experience XBONEd! Steam OS is an open OS, with a cross platform and open Vulkan Graphics API!
Steam OS based Steam Machines are full PCs in their own right, with mostly up-datable hardware, users of Steam OS can and do build their own Steam Machines from off the shelf parts, and the steam client is just there for those that want to use Steam’s gaming services and ecosystem with Steam OS/other Linux OS builds/distros, or even Mac, and windows OSs(7,8.1 too). Steam OS does not require that the Steam client must have any more priority or be baked into the OS functionality that can not be removed, unlike M$ windows 10 with all its baked into windows app store, ad pushing, and loads of spyware as part of the M$ OS and unremovable by the PC/Laptop’s owner.
The steam Client is just a user installable application for users to manage their steam gaming libraries, and the user account, while Steam OS is just another Debian based Linux Distro with all the attendant user rights to install and uninstall whatever packages the user wants, unlike M$’s We Know what’s good for the users so we’ll take over the users’ PCs!
M$ is actively trying to ensnare the the third party PC/Laptop gaming market into its walled garden land grab windows 10 OS, and UWP ecosystem. Anyone can install the Linux Debian based Linux distro of their choice and have it work with Steam’s Client software with very little in the way of issues. M$ wishes to bake their XBONE/UWP application ecosystem into the windows 10 OS with no chances of users able to remove the functionality. M$’s UWP is just another proprietary layer between a user’s gaming via a more open gaming ecosystem and M$’s closed gaming ecosystem and cash cow windows 10/XBONE.
Many Gamers are not ever going to become one of M$’s Universal Windows Peasants(UWP) and many are now really motivated to move to Steam OS/Vulkan and away from M$’s clutches!
“Advanced” Spindoctor. I’ll
“Advanced” Spindoctor. I’ll take that as a compliment. I’m not entirely sure why you’re droning on about Steam OS and steam machines though. I never mentioned anything of the sort.
– Oubadah | Microsoft Advanced Spindoctor
You said Steam, there is
You said Steam, there is Steam OS and there is Valve’s Steam cross platform client that is Steam’s way of providing its services. So make sure you say Steam Client, and not just Steam! And you are trying to spin the article author’s statements into a consensus around your trying to make M$’s OS Lock-down appear similar to the Steam OS, and the Steam client ecosystem, and it’s NOT!
Steam OS, and its ecosystem is the one alternative to M$’s master plan of turning users’ PCs/Laptops into appliances to go along with M$’s XBONE/Windows 10 closed gaming/computer OS ecosystem. Steam OS is just another Debian based distro, and gaming will need any alternative to M$ it can get, or else there will be no alternatives to Apple, Google, and now M$, for any owner of third party OEM produced PC/Laptop hardware! Steam OS/Linux only needs about 10% of the PC/Laptop market share to have enough user based for the Linux based gaming ecosystem to prosper, and Vulkan will be the real cross platform Graphics API that will allow for people to retain FULL control over their PC/Laptop hardware.
Valve’s cross platform Steam client is not wedded to Valves Steam OS, it’s not baked into to the Steam OS Debian based distro and users are not forced by Valve into Valve’s Steam Client gaming on any Steam OS based computer. Furthermore users had better keep a keen eye out on any new hardware that comes with windows 10 factory installed, as in that device’s UEFI/BIOS there may not be any M$ Windows secure boot OFF switch provided by the device’s OEM(It’s Optional now for OEMs to have, or NOT Have an OFF setting in the device’s UEFI/BIOS to be able to disable windows secure Boot on new windows 10 PC/Laptop hardware), so users may find that their custom Linux builds will not be able to be loaded without the secure boot signed keys from M$!
Be very observant of what M$ is doing with their WDDM 2.0, as that driver API model will be used to make trouble for Vulkan, and other non M$ controlled graphics APIs on windows 10, and be careful about any attempts to back-port WDDM 2.0 into windows 8.1 and 7. Valves Steam OS, will have none of these types of restrictions for the driver model on Steam OS/Linux Kernel, as Steam OS is based on the Linux kernel/Debian distro, and can be forked at any time just like any Linux distro. It’s more than just gaming that is under assault by M$’s attempt at going full on Apple/Google on users’ third party OEM PC/Laptop hardware. Apple/Google are not trying to force their way onto users third party OEM produced PC/Laptop hardware and turn the users hardware into an appliance under the control of the monopoly in Redmond!
“The same thing applies almost entirely to Steam. It might be doing it to a slightly lesser degree, but I’ve always said that Steam is doing it’s best to consolify the PC experience.”
Valve/Steam OS is not trying to take PCs and make them into locked down consoles, Valve has its CROSS PLATFORM steam client for its serivices on FULL PCs, and Steam OS is not the only OS that can have the Steam Client installed! The Steam client is NOT baked into any OS, and NOT even Valve’s Steam OS has the Steam Client baked into it. Steam OS is just another Debian Distro. You don’t want Valve’s gaming services and store don’t install the Steam Client. With M$ you have no choice its all baked into windows 10, and the windows 10 EULA allows M$ the rights to do what thay will with your PC/Laptop hardware, because you’ll loose control once you sign that EULA and agree to its terms and conditions!
edit: loose control
to:
edit: loose control
to: lose control
Again, I wasn’t talking about
Again, I wasn’t talking about Steam OS, so I don’t know why you launched into yet another essay on it.
For the record, I’m all for Linux and Vulcan, but I’d rather Valve stayed the hell out of it. They’re just another greedy corporate entity like Microsoft, and you can be certain that if they actually managed to get some kind of foothold as a gaming OS, they’d end up finding some way to abuse it. People have this rose-tinted delusion of “Valve: Champion of the PC gamer”, but their primary objective is to extract money out of you as efficiently as possible.
– Oubadah | Microsoft Advanced Spindoctor
Valve uses an open source
Valve uses an open source Debian based distro under an open source license, so unlike your paymaster M$, the Steam OS ecosystem can not be locked down to just the steam client!
You are most definitely trying to spin Valve as trying to use its Debian based Steam OS build to lock users in, when by the very nature of Linux that is not possable. You are trying to equate Valve’s Steam OS with Valve’s Steam Client optional software for the Steam Games library and user account services, and they are not wedded to each other like M$’s baked into windows 10 app store/UWP propitary OS/Appstore ecosystem is!
Oubadah, you are the very definition of a Universal Windows Peasant doing their M$ overlord’s bidding! You are not fooling anyone.
“You are most definitely
It doesn’t need to use Steam OS for that, the client already does it.
The steam client is NOT optional. If you buy a game that uses steamworks DRM (say, Skyrim), then the game is locked into steam. Even if you purchased the game retail. You have no choice but to install the client and put up with the forced updates etc. It restricts how you use your own software. Microsoft now plans to take the stupidity a step further, but it’s the same basic mentality at play in both cases.
– Oubadah | Microsoft Advanced Spindoctor
While it’s understandable
While it’s understandable that people may draw comparisons with Steam the similarities are only superficial, Steam doesn’t have exclusive control of the operating system, the API, and the store.
When any company has total control over more than one of those elements it makes it more likely that they will abuse that position.
At some point I’m not even
At some point I’m not even sure that abuse factors in. What Microsoft is in a position to do is unprecedented, a perfect storm of sorts:
1. Platform dominance – Windows PCs make up the largest gaming platform outside mobile devices (non-Windows phones/tablets) and dwarf consoles. By offering W10 for free, it’s the perfect incentive/trap to lock in users.
2. UWP – while limiting customer liberty, offers a secure platform for distribution and more importantly to developers and Microsoft – unrivaled telemetry of users.
3. DX12 offers tremendous unified support from Microsoft and as the dominant API, DX has been leading since… a long time. It’s very much dug in, so DX12 is a natural progression.
There are certainly pros to Microsoft’s approach, which may ultimately result in better quality games across the board, but will most certainly result in less liberty at the expense (literally) of gamers.
Steam’s track record isn’t spotless, but at least as a user you can have some semblance of privacy and liberty as to how you choose to play games. GOG is clearly the best in this regard, but suffers from a lack of support – which is probably due to publishers protecting their interests. In terms of balance, Steam wins out, I think. They really need to flex their muscles here, take a side and push Vulkan.
Re 2: The extra security of
Re 2: The extra security of UWP, that could eventually spell the end for win32 binaries, once all of Microsoft’s customers are on Windows 10 whose to say they’re not going to favor UWP over the older, less secure win32, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that at some point in the future Microsoft slowly starts to obfuscate access to win32 for security reasons.
Theoretically there’s no
Theoretically there’s no doubt, and I’m sure that’s their long-term goal, but the whole software industry would have to embrace UWP in order for Microsoft to even consider closing that door. I don’t think that would happen unless Microsoft offered developers greater transparency (telemetry) and/or revenue sharing.
Remember when EA wouldn’t release Madden on Xbox Live? EA didn’t give a sh!t about gamers, they just wanted to collect data from users through Live and Microsoft needed the support to get subscribers for their own data collection.
We’re approaching this new territory where eventually every major game publisher and every major studio will just offer subscription models through tightly monitored apps/services/devices. You’ll need 35 logins to watch TV and movies, and 15 more to play games.
A la carte is here.
M$’s UWP is just windows RT
M$’s UWP is just windows RT 2.0, so all of that TIFKAM nonsense has just been renamed to obfuscate M$’s TRUE intentions. M$ should not be able to legally force its closed ecosystem onto third party OEM made PC/Laptop users’ hardware. Apple only has its closed ecosystem on hardware that Apple makes/brands under its own name, so M$ is just trying the classic Standard Oil Style illegal monopolistic vertical market integration of the entire independent third party OEM PC/Laptop market.
Let you state’s Attorney General’s office Know what M$ is up to, as well as the US Department of Justice Antitrust division Know that M$ is attempting an illegal vertical market integration of the independent third party OEM PC/Laptop market! M$ has no rights to use your third part OEM manufactured PC/Laptop hardware for its illegal vertical market monetization scheme! M$ is merely a supplier of the OS part to the third party OEM PC/laptop manufacturers, and M$ needs to be stopped from this dictionary definition of an illegal attempt at cornering the third part PC/Laptop OS market and illegally using the third party OEM produced PC/Laptop hardware for M$’s monopolistic land grab!
Windows 10 isn’t free. You
Windows 10 isn’t free. You have to have a prior version of Windows, specifically 7 or 8, in which case you’re already in their ecosystem.
As someone who enjoys playing games on PC, DX12 is frighting.
I think Valve needs to do more than just push Vulcan. Linux on the desktop has floundered for the simple reason that there’s isn’t a core expect ion of what it should be. The Linux foundation needs to lay out what the software requirements of what a desktop Linux system has to contain so that people making distros geared toward the desktop home user can all use the same software. As a software maker doing anything for Linux right now there’s no good catch all.
That’s not to say there needs to be only one, but a simple cert for those making a distro for home users will go a long way for creating a *PLATFORM* for desktop home users.
Very good points, and for the
Very good points, and for the most part I agree. I will say that PC gaming before Steam became prominent wasn’t too much better with how crazy DRM methods got. It got so they didn’t even want you playing the game 😀
The way I see it, steam is
The way I see it, steam is one of the most bloated and invasive forms of DRM that’s appeared yet. If any regular DRM used used as much RAM as steam does, ran four processes, installed a 500MB directory, and downloaded 100+MB updates on a regular basis, everyone would condemn it. “But steam has all these useful features…” Yeah, that’s great if you want them, but try to see it from the perspective of someone who just wants to play the game and doesn’t care about any of steam’s features or utility as a store. In that case it represents nothing more than a very heavy DRM, and the very definition of bloatware.
Now it looks like DRM is only going to get worse.
The GOG model is the only one with any hope. No DRM, OPTIONAL client. They do their best to cater to linux too.
– Oubadah | Microsoft Advanced Spindoctor
As soon as Steam OS/Linux OS
As soon as Steam OS/Linux OS based PC/Laptops are offered with Steam OS/Linux distro(Mint, etc.) factory installed, and OEMs start offering both PC/Laptops with AMD’s CPUs/GPUs in addition to the already available Intel/Nvidia OEM made PC/laptop with a Linux based OS SKUs, then I can make the switch fully from windows 7. I would like to get my next laptop from a Linux based OEM that has support for AMD’s Zen based SKUs and AMD’s Polaris based descrete GPUs, hopefully before windows 7’s EOL in 2020.
There never needs to be a year of Linux, there only needs to be about a 10-15% Linux based OS market share to allow for most PC/Laptop OEMs to begin offering a Linux OS option for some of their PC/Laptop devices using both AMD, Intel, or Nvidia, CPU/GPU options. Once there are plenty of consumer options for PCs/Laptops that come with a Linux based OSs factory installed then even some of the most inexperienced users can make the switch without having things too complicated for them.
So hopefully there will be the next generation of Steam OS based Steam Machines with some AMD CPUs/GPUs on pre-installed Linux/Steam OS PC/Laptop options alongside the already available Intel/Nvidia Steam Machines that came with the first generation of Steam Machine offerings. I think that with Zen there may finally be some AMD based Linux OEM laptops out there before windows 7’s EOL in 2020, because I’m never going with any M$ OS beyond windows 7 and I’d hate to have to give up on being able to purchase a new laptop because there were no AMD/Linux based laptop options by 2020.
It isn’t really a “DX 12”
It isn’t really a “DX 12” controversy. I assume that you can use DX 12 independently of UWP and the Windows store . The problem is with UWP and the Windows Store, and more specifically, what Microsoft is planning. I don’t think consumers really need interoperability between Xbox and PC or PC and their Windows tablet or phone. How many people have a Windows tablet or phone and what apps would they really want to use on both? People with a gaming PC generally don’t have much use for an Xbox. This is one of those things where this is an upgrade for Microsoft, but not necessarily for the consumer.
I don’t actually understand what the issue is with porting between Xbox and PC currently unless it is the 8 GB of shared memory on the Xbox vs. more like 2 GB of graphics memory on most people’s video cards. The Batman Arkham Knight issues were a bit of a mystery to me. Is this really going to be that much easier for developers with all of the UWP limitations? I suspect that it will just make it very hard to develop a cross platform game. That is, developers will be able to use the same app for both PC and Xbox, but it will make porting to PlayStation, or anything non-Windows much harder.
I don’t know if Microsoft will attempt to lock down Windows to only allow distribution of applications via the Windows store. That would obviously cause a lot of backlash if done suddenly. I could see them doing it slowly by just having more and more Windows store exclusives until they eventually lock it down.
+1
I do wish people would
+1
I do wish people would stop confusing DX12 with UWP, who knows if Microsoft will slowly migrate over to UWP, all we know is that they’re putting all the pieces in place should they ever wish to do that.
Who knows what UWP only
Who knows what UWP only features that M$ is and will bake into DX12 to give UWP applications the edge over the win 32/64 desktop applications. DX12 is totally under M$ control, and DX12 is wedded to windows 10, and windows 10’s EULA, is the agreement that gives M$ the keys to your third party OEM PC/laptop hardware/OS ecosystem. DX12 and UWP are already joined at the hip on thier way to becoming required, and that EULA that you agreed to for windows 10 gives M$ way too much rights to do its will with your hardware/OS application ecosystem!